In this episode of the World Nicotine Congress podcast, host Elise Rasmussen sits down with Simon Clark, director of the UK smokers' rights group Forest. A non-smoker who has defended adult smokers for over two decades, Clark makes the case that Forest is not pro-smoking but pro-choice. The conversation covers the UK's generational ban, which he calls "creeping prohibition", the misperception of nicotine as no more harmful than caffeine, and why smokers and vapers should stop fighting each other and push back together against excessive regulation. Along the way they touch on Sweden's success with snus, France's ban on pouches, Forest's new Respect Choice campaign, and a fond tribute to the late artist and long-time supporter David Hockney.